Thread where I listen to discographies- The Monkees

Let's talk Aguachile Alley

Postby Althea » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:52 pm

Ohhhhhhhh you mean german german
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Postby guy forget » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:55 pm

is grammatron finally gonna cover ween, is that what i'm reading in here
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Postby DasLofGang » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:55 pm

well shit

I recently cracked into qotsa for the first time in a long ass time and anytime josh is doing the falsetto Bowie crooning "ah-hoooeeee-whoaaaa" affect (which seems more and more often as things go on) that I used to really enjoy, for reasons I can't explain, it's pure chalkboard nails to me now, and most of the grooves haven't held up either

I Want To Believe kyuss would actually fare better at this point but I'm too scared at the moment
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Postby Jefferson Zeppelin » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:10 pm

hella ween
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Postby grammatron » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:13 pm

DasLofGang wrote:well shit

I recently cracked into qotsa for the first time in a long ass time and anytime josh is doing the falsetto Bowie crooning "ah-hoooeeee-whoaaaa" affect (which seems more and more often as things go on) that I used to really enjoy, for reasons I can't explain, it's pure chalkboard nails to me now, and most of the grooves haven't held up either

I Want To Believe kyuss would actually fare better at this point but I'm too scared at the moment

Kyuss absolutely does not hold up better. Their music is wonderful, but John Garcia's "WHooooaaaa-yeeeeaaahhh" shit gets very old very fast. But I also strongly disagree about Homme's falsetto, which I love.
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Postby Kenny » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:15 pm

Do the Groovie Ghoulies next for Halloween
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Postby The Priest » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:15 pm

I don't think I've ever heard a helloween track
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Postby Eyeball Kid » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:23 pm

grammatron wrote:
DasLofGang wrote:well shit

I recently cracked into qotsa for the first time in a long ass time and anytime josh is doing the falsetto Bowie crooning "ah-hoooeeee-whoaaaa" affect (which seems more and more often as things go on) that I used to really enjoy, for reasons I can't explain, it's pure chalkboard nails to me now, and most of the grooves haven't held up either

I Want To Believe kyuss would actually fare better at this point but I'm too scared at the moment

Kyuss absolutely does not hold up better. Their music is wonderful, but John Garcia's "WHooooaaaa-yeeeeaaahhh" shit gets very old very fast. But I also strongly disagree about Homme's falsetto, which I love.

I can tolerate Garcia because he's usually low in the mix, but yeah. Good thing Kyuss favored extended instrumentals.
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Postby grammatron » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:32 pm

Joker wrote:I don't think I've ever heard a helloween track

I posted a bunch on the last page. Just FYI.
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Postby grammatron » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:32 pm

RealKenny3 wrote:Do the Groovie Ghoulies next for Halloween

That would be a fun, quick one.
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Postby manvstrees » Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:57 pm

what a great choice
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Postby PBR_Streetgang » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:20 am

I had a German friend in high school who dubbed a bunch of Helloween for me and I wasn’t into it.

“I Want Out” from KotSK 2 (I think…?) is a fucking ripper of a track though.
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Postby grammatron » Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:39 pm

That is their best song, for sure.
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Postby grammatron » Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:39 pm

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Postby mondrary » Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:40 pm

i fucking love this thread, makes me want to start reading more about the bands i do this with as i go through them (if that makes sense). never heard a note of helloween's music but i'm fascinated and i thought that write-up was incredible.
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Postby grammatron » Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:48 pm

Thanks mondrary! This one was really fun because parts of it were bonkers, and the kind of music they play is just goofy by nature, which makes it fun to really dig into. And I didn't even get to it all. I should start posting these on Medium or something where I can really nerd out.
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Postby grammatron » Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:35 pm

This one is really, really long, so I'm splitting it into 3 (three) parts. But I've been trying to type this up and edit it for like a week to get it to a manageable length, and it just ain't happening. So, to get us started here, I listened to 15 full-lengths, 1 live album, and 1 singles collection from Ministry.

Image

Obviously, their sound has changed a lot over the years, so let's break it down by era.

The Synth Years
The very early era is essentially a dude trying to find his sound. With Sympathy came out in '83, and if you listen to the live stuff from before that, it doesn't sound a whole lot like With Sympathy. Al claims that he was pushed to the softer, poppier synth sound once he got in the studio and that Arista wouldn't let him use the stuff he'd recorded prior, stuff that ended up on Twitch and Land of Rape and Honey. I don't doubt that some of that stuff was written earlier (as it lines up with the other earlier stuff), but there are conflicting reports about how much Al was coerced and how much he chose to do himself in an attempt to get a mainstream audience. Original keyboardist Robert Roberts says no one was pushed in this direction, just that the production was cheesier than they wanted and watered down the songs.

For some of the songs, I can hear that. "Revenge" in particular wouldn't sound too out of place on Twitch if the vocals were distorted and some noise was added. The video certainly looks more like that of a darkwave band than a synth-pop band. It's also a fucking awesome song.



But then there's stuff like "What He Say" and "Say You're Sorry", which is total cheeseball and nothing like anything he'd do later. There are live versions of some of that stuff out there, and it doesn't sound any different than the album versions, so it's hard to imagine some scenario where Al was pushed in this direction by Arista. So while I do like some of With Sympathy a lot, it's also a mess and has some real garbage on it.



Back in the early 90s, this album was legendary for how awful it was, and it was out of print. When I finally heard it the first time, I was pretty blown away by how fucking goofy it was. But over the years I've come to really love a few of these songs.

Also, as a side note, it's insane that this dreamboat:
Image

turned into this:
Image

but I digress...
Toggle Spoiler


This era also gives us 12 Inch Singles and Al's biggest hit, "Every Day is Halloween". You can hear him inching towards darker stuff. And the expanded version of this that came out a while back is awesome and features a lot of that early, pre-Sympathy stuff (including their first single, which came out before Sympathy and doesn't really sound like it at all). So the entire early period bounces around cheesy synth-pop, darkwave, goth, new wave, post-punk, etc. And genre-hopping through all of that led him to finally figure out what it was he wanted to do, which gave us Twitch. It's long been a favorite of mine because it's such a fucked up mix of dance-pop and dark, noisy industrial, but it is also inconsistent. But with Twitch, he had found his niche, and then when it came time to put together a band to tour this, he recruited Paul and Roland Barker and Bill Reiflin, starting the partnership that would really define Ministry from then on out.

The Classic Years
So once Paul Barker gets involved, things really take a turn. We get Land of Rape and Honey, which is in a lot of ways the first true Ministry record. Distorted guitars get used the first time, there are lots of samples, and there's no trace of the synth-pop sound left. There's just nothing pretty about it at all. It's abrasive, pounding, and heavy without really being metal. Chris Connelly also makes his first appearance singing vocals on "I Prefer", though this song was a bonus track on the CD version and not on the other releases, so it was years after the fact that I first heard it, being a cassette boy when I got into Ministry.

The Mind is a Terrible Thing to Taste is where things truly take off, with "Thieves", "Burning Inside", and "So What" all becoming live staples. This is where he really embraces metal, and the tracks I just mentioned basically become the template for basically everything going forward. However, listening to the album now, it's pretty dated and inconsistent. "Test" is completely stupid, and "Dream Song" is a waste. And if I'm being honest, I don't even like "Thieves" all that much. It relies too heavily on the samples and is kinda gimmicky. However, it's also where he first brought Mike Scaccia (RIP) into the fold, a partnership that's up there with his partnership with Barker in terms of influence on Ministry's sound.

But this tour, which featured a circus sideshow's worth of guests and featured as many non-Ministry tracks in the setlist as Ministry ones, really must've been a site to behold. If I could go back in time and see any concert, this might be the one I'd pick. They released In Case you Didn't Feel Like Showing Up from this tour, but this brief ep doesn't really do it justice, and it leaves off the first song, an incredible version of "Breathe" that features a fucking awesome drum intro with Bill Rieflin and Martin Atkins just pounding the shit out of the drums. A few years ago a soundboard recording of the full show was released as Live Necronomicon, and though it doesn't sound as good (having not been gussied up and remixed in the studio like ICYDFLSU), it's a much better record overall.



I know I'm going to ruffle some feathers when I say this, but Psalm 69 is their best album. It's so fucking heavy, the production is fantastic, and every song is a banger. All of the good aspects of Mind are turned up to 10 on this one, and none of the cornball shit came along for the ride. The album release was preceded by the "Jesus Built My Hotrod" single, which features an awesome longer version of that song as well as "TV Song", a superior version of "TV II" and the first in a series of "TV" songs. Supposedly this song was just a goof that came about when Mike Scaccia (RIP), one of the fastest riffers that ever held a guitar, and Bill Reiflin were trying to see how fast they could play. Chris Connelly wrote the lyrics, which is the last contribution he made to the band (so far). I like this version best because it sounds more organic than its sequel.



They were at their highest point popularity-wise after this album, essentially on the same level as Nine Inch Nails. They were second-to-last at Lollapalooza 92, right before Red Hot Chili Peppers. If only they could keep this momentum going!

The Heroin Years
But that ain't what happened. They took forever to get another record out, first of all. 4 years went by, and the musical landscape shifted. And Al's desire to constantly leave the past behind, combined with both members' intense drug problems, brought us Filth Pig, an album that sounds nothing like the stuff that came before it, and an album that is unfairly maligned. They stripped back the sound to something that would sound like sludge metal if the guitars weren't so thin and mechanical sounding. No samples. Slowed down. Dark and grimy. Also there's a Bob Dylan cover. Honestly, I love this record. It also has "Useless", the first song to feature Barker on vocals, which is weird given that they had people other than Al singing all over the three classic albums. I like his voice a lot, and it really suits the sound from this weird era.



The next two records, Dark Side of the Spoon (1999) and the frustratingly titled Animositisomina (2001) continue this style, though they pick up the pace a little and these two do sound a little more "industrial", even if it is still mostly a live band and there aren't samples or anything. They are both good, mostly ignored/forgotten albums. Animositisomina has a great cover of Magazine's "The Light Pours out of Me" that you should seek out.


(Barker on vocals there too btw ^)



Al and Paul's relationship really broke down during this period. The last song on Animositimawhatever is instrumental because Al just decided not to come back to the studio, leaving Paul to finish it. And with that, Paul says "Smell ya later," leaving Al all alone.

I'll finish up their studio albums plus the countless remix and covers albums in part 2 later this week (and the board collectively posts omgIcan'twait.gif).
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Postby KPH » Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:24 pm

I watch that “Breathe” video a couple times a year, so great. I saw them at a smaller venue on the Psalm 69 tour (Helmet opening!) and as I was dumb teenager hadn’t yet started wearing earplugs to shows and I’m sure that took a few frequencies off my hearing.
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Postby waldojeffers1 » Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:27 pm

I love both filth pig and dark side of the spoon
oh no someone save us
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Postby Smiling Penner-Lite » Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:28 pm

love this, grammatron.

I actually didn't even know With Sympathy existed until about a year ago, so I was blown away by this pretty great synthpop album.

I grew up on Mind is a Terrible Thing to Taste and Psalm 69, and mostly forgot about them after that; as you say, 4 years between albums, and figured they were done.

Mind is probably my favourite, Breathe, Burning Inside and Thieves are just relentless. My 10-year-old daughter is pretty tolerant of me playing a wide variety of songs without complaint, but when I cranked "Thieves" she asked me to turn it off after a minute lol
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Postby pissydan » Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:32 pm

are you covering the al side projects? revco, lard, welt, pailhead, 1000, etc...
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Postby waldojeffers1 » Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:58 pm

I’m pretty sure I’m gonna go see them on their next tour in spite of everything that’s happened
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Postby grammatron » Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:12 pm

pissydan wrote:are you covering the al side projects? revco, lard, welt, pailhead, 1000, etc...

That will be part 3, yes.
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Postby grammatron » Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:14 pm

waldojeffers1 wrote: in spite of everything that’s happened

Love this.

I saw them a few years ago at a festival and they were very boring, but I probably wasn’t in the right frame of mind to enjoy them. It was right before Amerikkkant, so right after their two stinker albums, and I just didn’t have the patience for Al and a bunch of scrubs.
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Postby Rhodes » Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:43 pm

waldojeffers1 wrote:I love both filth pig and dark side of the spoon
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Postby waldojeffers1 » Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:44 pm

Next years tour is to celebrate mind is a terrible thing to taste so hopefully they play a good amount of that in addition new stuff

And they’re touring with the Melvins

I’m now listening to the new ministry and it’s all samples from Greta thunberg at the UN
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Postby Swelling Itching Brain » Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:50 pm

for some reason I assumed grams had already done ministry a while ago, maybe you just talk about being a fan in other places on the board


listening to filth pig through the lens of scratchy doom metal and it makes sense now as an aesthetic choice, I guess I dismissed it back in early 00s because I didn't have any benchmarks to place it (also cuz it's a dirge!), but that was before I'd ever heard say, godflesh
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Postby grammatron » Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:55 pm

Yeah I’ve definitely talked about them in other threads. They were one of the first bands I became really obsessive over when I was a teen, and there was just so much stuff to discover.
Last edited by grammatron on Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby grammatron » Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:57 pm

waldojeffers1 wrote:Next years tour is to celebrate mind is a terrible thing to taste so hopefully they play a good amount of that in addition new stuff

And they’re touring with the Melvins

I’m now listening to the new ministry and it’s all samples from Greta thunberg at the UN

The samples are a drag for sure.

Also I’ll be shocked if Chris Connelly doesn’t end up showing up and some of those dates, and I wouldn’t be completely surprised if Paul shows up as well. I fell like Al’s been making amends with a lot of those old dudes (and with his own legacy) over the last coupl’a years.
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Postby theta » Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:58 pm

with sympathy is so good. come on grammatron.it isn’t that corny dude…

also yeah in the waxtrax documentary there’s all this archival footage of al just hanging out and yeah he was hot and he dressed so well. just someone you would immediately know was cool

love paul barker, what a talent
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