I posted every smashing pumpkins song in chronological or

der: in this thread.

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Postby endoskeleton » Fri Mar 31, 2023 1:54 am

eh, i guess slunk can't be top five but i have a lot of affection for it. "blue" is probably top 5 or at least top 10, though
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Postby palmer eldritch » Fri Mar 31, 2023 1:55 am

103. Your Whore

https://youtu.be/U1aVBVh90hM?t=1758

this one is not necessarily a "real song" but the lyrics/melody were used twice in the live shows in '92 so it might barely pass the criteria for inclusion. it was one of the live curios you could collect as a fan in the 90's.

along with

104. Lookout Loretta



which was played around the same shows in Germany, as jam attached to "I Am One." three times, once as instrumental. like "Your Whore" it's just a fan title based on the minimal lyrics. I actually did listen to this one a lot, it's a fun little jam.
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Postby palmer eldritch » Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:10 am

105. Whir



that gets us through the stuff that was played live in the summer, but there's a lot more material in the fall that first appears on the Quiet and Other Songs demo. and I kind of ranked them roughly on how complete they were or other guesses on which ones came first.

"Whir" was one that was done already by the time they recorded the demo, but they hadn't played it as a band very many times, judging by Billy taking a moment in the song to guide through the changes. it was called "Whirl" which makes sense. because he says that word in the song. but then he called it "Whir" later.



as the rare demo with complete lyrics, I'd have to imagine there's a home demo version of it, though I think BC recalled coming up with the riff through jamming at the rehearsal space. IIRC Butch didn't care for it so that's why it didn't really get considered for the album. Billy also said in his podcast recently that it was actually recorded during a trip to Smart Studios in the spring, after the album had wrapped, and not during the sessions as was presumed. they never played it live during the original run of the band.

I like it, I think they could have found a space on SD for it. but it worked out ok since Pisces became a thing.
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Postby palmer eldritch » Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:33 am

106. Blew Away



the first James song to get an album release, even if it was the leftovers album.

the song was also pretty much done when they recorded the demo in fall '92



it was also recorded in the spring after SD was wrapped, though at Soundworks. drums by Kerry Brown, Jimmy was "on vacation" whatever that might mean at this point of the band.

it got a live debut at the wonderful Double Door shows in '95: https://ia802806.us.archive.org/21/items/tsp1995-02-28.flac16/tsp1995-02-28d2t08.mp3

and then became a regular tune on the Machina tour

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Postby Althea » Fri Mar 31, 2023 9:43 am

Am I a bad fan if I admit none of James's lead vocal tracks ever did anything for me? Nothing against him, I think it's just that Billy's vocals and lyrics are such a specific taste that it's hard to enjoy a different voice in the middle of that.
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Postby ashtrayheart » Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:15 am

i think james iha just sucks at vocals lol. his approach and natural voice don’t do it for me. some of his songs are pretty good.
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Postby hadlex » Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:30 am

Whir has such an unexpectedly haunting outro. great tune.
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Postby Smiling Penner-Lite » Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:55 am

Man Whir getting me all teary-eyed this morning. Another in the great Alt-Pumpkins psych folk band that could have been. Don't know if I've ever really heard a song like this... maybe Fleetwood Mac?

I know Corgan has never been known to be the greatest lyricist of all time, but

She says she wants to marry me
She says she wants a baby
But it's not easy
When you're scared
Worry yourself around
Just to fall back down
Worry yourself around

Felt very real to me in my late teens and early 20s
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Postby hipinion is a pro selfharm board » Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:00 am

it's always been a fun experiment to imagine smashing pumpkins without corgan as the vocalist but ultimately i don't think i'd find them as interesting if that was the case.

i love both james and d'arcy's vocals but i don't think they'd have stood out anywhere nearly as much if they sang lead primarily. as is i can enjoy like idk, 'the boy' and 'daydream' as rare treats.
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Postby hipinion is a pro selfharm board » Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:10 am

i do remember once upon a time very excited to hear the james iha solo album but it say something i didnt even remember it existed until 15 minutes after making that last post.

i don't think i realized he did the linda linda linda score until just now. dang.
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Postby palmer eldritch » Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:13 am

one of the few things I never unloaded from my collection was the "Be Strong Now" single because no one will accept it
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Postby palmer eldritch » Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:15 am

damn I also have a promo CD for it
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Postby reversemigraine » Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:15 am

Smiling Penner-Lite wrote:Man Whir getting me all teary-eyed this morning. Another in the great Alt-Pumpkins psych folk band that could have been. Don't know if I've ever really heard a song like this... maybe Fleetwood Mac?

I know Corgan has never been known to be the greatest lyricist of all time, but

She says she wants to marry me
She says she wants a baby
But it's not easy
When you're scared
Worry yourself around
Just to fall back down
Worry yourself around

Felt very real to me in my late teens and early 20s


Probably a post for a few pages down the chronological road, but one of the things that really stood out to me the other day when I was trying to trim away all the mall-goth angst and music-box nursery rhyme stuff from MCIS was that the album that remained was very much a set of songs about a 27-year-old who's trying and probably failing to navigate his new married life, which both aligns with where he was at in real life and which feels like a more natural fit between Siamese Dream and Adore.
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Postby reversemigraine » Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:16 am

palmer eldritch wrote:one of the few things I never unloaded from my collection was the "Be Strong Now" single because no one will accept it


You kept it because Falling is one of the few great James songs.
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Postby reversemigraine » Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:18 am

My dad still hasn't forgiven me for having to listen to all of Let It Come Down on a road trip.

"Let me guess, he's going to say 'love' again, right? Yup, there he goes. How many times is that now? Are we up to 20 times yet? I lost count."
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Postby Smiling Penner-Lite » Fri Mar 31, 2023 1:08 pm

reversemigraine wrote:Probably a post for a few pages down the chronological road, but one of the things that really stood out to me the other day when I was trying to trim away all the mall-goth angst and music-box nursery rhyme stuff from MCIS was that the album that remained was very much a set of songs about a 27-year-old who's trying and probably failing to navigate his new married life, which both aligns with where he was at in real life and which feels like a more natural fit between Siamese Dream and Adore.


Hmmm this is good. It's been ages since I've really gone over the lyrics from MCIS, and as a 45 year old it will be interesting!
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Postby hipinion is a pro selfharm board » Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:48 pm

the 'my blue heaven' cover on aeroplane flies high strikes me as yeah being ultimate evidence of MCIS being a 'just got married' record.
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Postby reversemigraine » Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:52 pm

Ironically that's one of the MCIS-era songs they recorded AFTER his wife left him. :shock:
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Postby palmer eldritch » Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:31 am

107. Set the Ray to Jerry



"Set the Ray to Jerry" was recorded for MCIS and released on the "1979" single. but it was written as far back as the Gish tour, according to Billy. though the first record of it is in the Quiet and Other Songs tape.



so that's probably the most interesting/listenable thing on the tape. a Siamese Dream style version of the song with a heavy chorus. it has mumble lyrics but it's still interesting. they did actually play it live in Atlanta along with the other new SD material on 11/30/92 but that recording only appears to exist in the band's archive.

it's not clear if they actually tracked it for SD or not but it is mentioned in the first fan club newsletter from March '93 alongside other album tracks.

Image

so one of those things about the reissues that I thought was pretty disappointing is not including some SD version of this song. even if the Quiet demo version is undesirable, there's a live take, probably demo versions, probably other rehearsals. possibly an album outtake version. but no.

so it was recorded for MCIS and considered as a top tier contender for that album

on the gravity demo in spring '94 and then later the fall '94 pumpkinland demo it was more mellow, turning toward the MCIS version



and then it was played at the Double Door in '95.



but Flood said no so it went to b-side land. it was played twice later, at the Bridge School shows in '97

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Postby palmer eldritch » Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:44 am

108. She Says



one that's unique to the Quiet and Other Songs demo. so we knew the title for 10 years before anyone could hear it. it sounds like it's a fairly complete song, there could be a more polished demo version somewhere in the archive. but if so it was passed over on the reissues. you can use your imagination to get to what a finished product would be like, could have been pretty good.
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Postby palmer eldritch » Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:12 am

109. Mayonaise



in a way it's really different from the rest of the SD material, other than "Luna" in being truly romantic and not biting. if you know what I mean. sentimental. Billy says James played the riff for him back in February on the Gish tour, when they were in Japan. but the song was never put together or played live before the Quiet and Other Songs demo version, which is quite a ways toward Siamese Dream structurally but he hadn't worked on the lyrics at all.



he had the first few lines down. the demo version has the cool feedback guitar on it. the feedback squelches are still a really cool touch.

unfortunately the only live version from '92 is from the concert which has a really rough recording, but you can make out that he hadn't written the lyrics yet in early December either.

https://archive.org/download/tsp1992-12-01.ana1/tsp1992-12-01t15.mp3

a version of the SD recording with just the vocal track and acoustic guitar was on MP and later the Still Becoming Apart CD, which is also a very nice version.



they played it live regularly through the SD, MCIS, and Machina tours, and up to the "last show" https://ia800202.us.archive.org/17/items/tsp2000-12-02.baker/tsp2000-12-02s1t13.mp3

I suppose this song made more sense to me when I was a teenager than it does to me now, but it does sound wonderful. "and I fail" yeah I hear you man.

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Postby hipinion is a pro selfharm board » Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:17 am

set the ray to Jerry was my goat track for years and years .

acoustic mayonaise really hitting the spot atm. I really love how SD is paced from geek USA onward. even the lesser tracks like sweet sweet or whatever sound lovely in that context
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Postby Althea » Sat Apr 01, 2023 8:50 am

Whoa wasn't expecting Jerry for another couple years, and here it is right beside Mayonaise. Two songs that on any given day could be my absolute favourite by anybody.

Blasting Mayo yesterday I heard the vocals as very Loveless inspired - esp parts like "I will" sound like the soft multitracked MBV lead vocals. It's def the most shoegazey song on an explicitly Loveless influenced album. The little feedback > pause moments on the guitar are an excellent and very 90s touch too. Sometimes I think it's slipped a tiny bit in my mind now that I no longer have 15 year old emotions to pour into it but it still hits me hard, esp when I'm having lots of 45 year old feelings.

To think they coulda stopped working on Jerry and put the loud Siamese style version on Pisces. I don't think it would be nearly as loved, the slinky bass forward arrangement is perfect and stands out in their catalog way more than another Frail/Blue/Plume/Moleasskiss/etc sounding track would (and I love all those songs, I'm just glad Jerry found its final form)
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Postby hadlex » Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:03 am

Anderson Cooper is a STRTJ fan

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Postby reversemigraine » Sat Apr 01, 2023 8:12 pm

Palmer, this is something you discuss a lot throughout individual posts, but once you're done with individual songs, it would be nice to get a chronology not of when songs were written, but of when major batches of recordings (e.g., Mashed Potatoes, Quiet and Other Songs, etc.) were first rumored and first started circulating. It's fascinating to see which gaps in the record were filled early on and which (if any) still exist (i.e., known unknowns).
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Postby reversemigraine » Sat Apr 01, 2023 8:18 pm

STRTJ was probably the first instance I can remember in which a long-rumored song actually saw the light of day on an official release. I forget if the mention of it from the newsletter was something that was outlined in the FAQ or what, but the tracklist for the 1979 import single was circulating right as I was becoming Very Online and it felt like a big deal.
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Postby why why why why why why » Sat Apr 01, 2023 10:08 pm

Althea wrote:Am I a bad fan if I admit none of James's lead vocal tracks ever did anything for me? Nothing against him, I think it's just that Billy's vocals and lyrics are such a specific taste that it's hard to enjoy a different voice in the middle of that.


the boy and said sadly are top tier
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Postby palmer eldritch » Sun Apr 02, 2023 12:42 am

110. Quiet



and now for... "Quiet" which was the song that was first on the tape Quiet and Other Songs.

the demo is, a song, which is "Quiet" but again the lyrics are you know. unfinished but for the most part there are words in there except at the end. I think they're more explicitly about a guy taking a nap.



the version from Dec. in Atlanta still doesn't really have the verses. the chorus is getting close, but it's just slightly off. "be afraid, of what you made, and your eyes never forget to see behind you" or something like that
https://ia800900.us.archive.org/34/items/tsp1992-12-11.hi8.dat/tsp1992-12-11t06.mp3

it's almost remarkable how many of these songs were really just not even done as recording was starting, but I guess they were generally tracking the instruments and worrying about the lyrics and vocals at the end.

while it's probably the dumbest song on the album, it's not the worst one at all. nice riff. "the guitars sound so good." and yeah the ending rules. they didn't play it after the SD tour.

mostly I noticed that in '94 they really start to rush through the song

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Postby palmer eldritch » Sun Apr 02, 2023 1:21 am

111. Cherub Rock



"Cherub Rock" was one of the last songs written for the album, and the first single from the album. the music video really sucks. just massively 1993 lol.

the demo version is another interesting one on Quiet and Other Songs as a look at the process of how they develop songs



the song is musically quite complete. it even has the drum rolls! it does have a chorus. but no "tell me all your secrets section." the lyrics in the verses are complete filler but they have the melody and even pretty much the syllable patterns. so I get at this point there are two modes, one is where BC writes a song and then brings it to the band and teaches it to them. the other one is where they develop it together in rehearsal/jamming and he gets the melody he wants and then he comes back and fills it in with lyrics that fit the melody he came up with.

the 12/11 version has other filler lyrics still but some of them are interesting when you can make them out https://ia600900.us.archive.org/34/items/tsp1992-12-11.hi8.dat/tsp1992-12-11t08.mp3
"give up, give in, doesn't matter what you believe in, i know, should have what listened what I was told this year." something about the angels of our prayers. "i'll see you in the end, bye bye." "i know, that i'm frightened and i'm scared, I don't care." and hey it has the "tell me all of your secrets" part now!

then that was cleaned up a bit more and it was recorded.

remember this one



man people loved the 666 shirt. I did too.

anyway it's a great song. i think it's funny now that I'm aware of how explicitly he meant it to be about how he hated his indie rock band contemporaries. "hipsters unite." classic.

it was a regular on the SD and MCIS tours and then again on the Machina tours. they played it the second time I saw them. and the third. and the fourth, fifth, and sixth but NOT the seventh. but again on the 8th one. and the 9th and 10th.
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Postby palmer eldritch » Sun Apr 02, 2023 1:49 am

112. Soma



another James riff based song. another rocky relationship tune. the only real lyrics in the demo are the close your eyes and sleep part. and "I'm all by myself!"



but most of the song is there again. I don't really have any interesting comments on it. it was my favorite song on Siamese Dream at one point. not really so much any more. the little part right before the guitars kick in is good at building anticipation. I bet that would be cool live.



they last played it on the arising! tour in 1999. https://archive.org/details/ArisingTramps1999Soundboard/16+Soma.mp3
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