I posted every smashing pumpkins song in chronological or

der: in this thread.

Let's talk Aguachile Alley

Postby Althea » Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:05 pm

Oh duh windowpane right

The slower songs in the middle of Gish have a trippy vibe yeah
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Postby palmer eldritch » Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:25 pm

79. Silverfuck



shakedown #79 -- the song "Silverfuck" was first recorded live in July '91.

as the rehearsal demo titled "Ache" from fall '91 indicates, the song was pretty much solid except for the "bang bang you're dead" at that point already.



but if you step back to the first two recordings of it from July, they were still working through it, the lyrics weren't set, the structure was a little off. this was something you don't get to see much of after the Gish tour, the band working through a song in a live environment.

the first one isn't a strong recording. it's possible it wasn't the first one, because there are plenty of gaps in the bootleg record there. an even earlier version, if one were out there in the archives, would be cool to hear. if the "Cinder" > "Silverfuck" transition is a real thing.

you can really hear the "Cinder"-ness in the second live version, which is much better quality, in the section of the second verse, where they don't drop out the instruments like they do in later versions, also in the final return jam. it's a really interesting version, if you care about the song.

https://ia801602.us.archive.org/25/items/tsp1991-07-21.ANA-2.D4.flac16/tsp1991-07-21t14.mp3

the next one from 10 days later had largely started to adhere to what the Rehearsal Demo sounds like. became a regular part of the set on the gish tour. there's a good video from the metro show 12/31/91:



over the years it became a signature song, often a set-ender, mixed with other riffs and song pieces, then mutating on the mellon collie tour into an up to 40-minute monster.

the Vieuphoria version from '94 was an iconic one with jackboot



there's the incredible version from the last concert before Melvoin's death



then the february '97 versions before it was retired

https://ia600204.us.archive.org/32/items/tsp1997-02-01.flac16/tsp1997-02-01d2t05.mp3

they brought it back for the last song at the last show at the metro. I watched that one from the back, had been pulled out of the front row after one of the encores because the person I was with was getting too overheated/crushed. it was a good performance, basically rewritten entirely for that day. it's been 20 years, they should release it, right. lol?
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Postby hipinion is a pro selfharm board » Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:31 pm

'silverfuck' has always reminded me of tool, esp. that 40 minute version lol.
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Postby hipinion is a pro selfharm board » Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:31 pm

i gotta do a slow dig through the songs i'm not familiar with this weekend.
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Postby hipinion is a pro selfharm board » Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:33 pm

and yeah thanks for doing this. i consider myself to be a big fan of their studio work and i know a fair share of billy corgan errata but a lot of the early history of the band is completely foreign to me so the early stretches of this thread i've read have beren super interesting.
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Postby reversemigraine » Thu Mar 23, 2023 5:01 pm

Loved Jackboot on Vieuphoria and was so psyched when it popped up in Pastichio Medley.

I remember reading reviews of the MCIS shows as they started flowing in and all the talk of "Silverfuck II" was exciting but frustrating because boots weren't available.
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Postby Da Good Boy » Thu Mar 23, 2023 5:04 pm

Vieuphoria version is perfect. That 40 minute MCIS version borders on "Shreds" material at times
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Postby palmer eldritch » Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:28 pm

80. STP



the song STP was played throughout second half of 1991. live versions have been available on bootlegs since probably the mid-90s. no one knew what the title of the song was. the most popular name for it was "What You Wanted." nobody connected it to the song title "STP" which was on Mashed Potatoes, until someone got a copy of Mashed Potatoes. it was one of the ones that wasn't on the Coyle tape so like "Jesus Loves His Babies" getting a studio version of it was a pretty exciting thing when the whole set became available.

there are about 10 live versions you can hear now. I've listened to all of them. I've listened to this song a lot because its lyrics are so hard to nail down. and because of its connection to another song which will come around shortly. but it exists in two main versions, there's version one which was played in July and August '91. the first version starts with the lyric "I don't want it.. what you wanted" or something like that. that becomes the second verse of the reworked version.

https://ia902803.us.archive.org/2/items/tsp1991-08-20.silvercd/tsp1991-08-20t09.mp3

the song was reworked and had more proper lyrics written, and adds another section to the song, likely in a break in touring in September. I presume that it and "Ache" and probably other things were recorded in that period. the next recorded version of it from october follows that rehearsal demo version almost exactly.

https://ia803008.us.archive.org/27/items/tsp1991-10-16.flac16/tsp1991-10-16t07.mp3

"this is where I left my friends, some are real and some pretend..."

I've often wondered why the song is named after motor oil but of course

2,5-Dimethoxy-4-methylamphetamine (DOM; known as STP, standing for "Serenity, Tranquility and Peace") is a psychedelic and a substituted amphetamine.
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Postby palmer eldritch » Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:43 pm

81. Luna



the story on "Luna" is actually really clear and easy. he wrote it in London during their first time visiting the country, in September '91. after he got back, he recorded the apartment demo version of it, which is also very good, and was on Mashed Potatoes before it was an extra on the SD reissue.



they debuted it live in October.



they played it through the Gish tour and last played it in '94



really great song. one of the best ones on SD. I'm not sure what the cutoff for "one of the best ones on SD" is though
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Postby palmer eldritch » Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:55 pm

82. Wave Song



I don't think anything is really known about "Wave Song" other than this it was recorded in a studio/rehearsal demo that's labeled as 1991 on the Mashed Potatoes set. so the earliest studio recording of a James Iha song. I think it's a pretty good one. deserved a slot on some reissue.
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Postby palmer eldritch » Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:56 pm

that's it for 1991~!
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Postby palmer eldritch » Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:15 pm

try to round up the covers

Terrapin by Syd Barret, which was used as a b-side



they played Out of Focus occasionally throughout '91 which was a really appropriate choice I think



and of course Girl Named Sandoz was recorded at the Peel Session in September '91

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Postby marble » Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:40 pm

thanks palmer still enjoying this btw!
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Postby Smiling Penner-Lite » Fri Mar 24, 2023 11:30 am

amazing work, palmer.

Rocket - he'd never written anything like that before. Man I love all the riffs and little fills in this song, and how it all comes together in the end. Perfectly produced and arranged, the song is perfect, the video is perfect. 10/10.

Luna is also a 10 but not as important a song, if I can put it that way.

Always liked the Terrapin cover.
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Postby axelrod gunnarson » Fri Mar 24, 2023 3:42 pm

Rocket is, if not the first Pumpkins song I heard, the first I can remember really liking. Tremendous work in this thread.
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Postby palmer eldritch » Fri Mar 24, 2023 5:48 pm

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Postby Tai-Pan » Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:50 pm

Smiling Penner-Lite wrote:amazing work, palmer.

Rocket - he'd never written anything like that before. Man I love all the riffs and little fills in this song, and how it all comes together in the end. Perfectly produced and arranged, the song is perfect, the video is perfect. 10/10.

Luna is also a 10 but not as important a song, if I can put it that way.

Always liked the Terrapin cover.


1. yes! palmer my man... i look forward to seeing this post updated like you cant imagine. thank you! i cant wait for MCIS era... esp. w the video footage possibilities \

2 rocket? hell yeah! i always thought it had the most overt brian may guitar homage/parts, especially the breakdown... and the song itself is so its so DYNAMIC. i think you referenced this before SP... and I agree, the loss of this sense of dynamism is very apparent in the reunion material. but it remined me of this random memory that...

3. there was a period in which BC took to myspace and posted these lengthy reflections on the recording process for - as i recall - siamese dream. it was actually really fascinating with a healthy dose of BCs petulant narcissism. i'm trying to find them but one thing i recall is that they used this numbering system specifically for dynamics... i recall hi, talking about soma or maybe mayonnaise and how they would need parts to be at a certain number of intensity before they could let it go to a higher level/#.
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Postby qwerty » Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:51 am

palmer eldritch wrote:
the Vieuphoria version from '94 was an iconic one with jackboot





man I remember loving that shit they did at the end of the vieuphoria version (didn't know "Jackboot" was a recorded version until this thread). This thread is throwing me back in time. Excellent work!
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Postby beardhurts » Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:44 am

Corgan lost a lawsuit in the mid-1990s to Ed Roland after Roland was able to produce a demo tape featuring "Shine" that preceded the Smashing Pumpkins' release.[citation needed]

how true is this?
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Postby palmer eldritch » Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:18 pm

all right now. I'll do my best for 1992 here, but it gets harder. I think it will probably be the most songs for a year so far. but what is a year anyway?
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Postby palmer eldritch » Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:28 pm

83. Translucent



I'm a bit puzzled with where to put this one, since. well for one, the Mashed Potatoes tracklisting says it's from 1990. but it was properly mixed for inclusion on the Pisces deluxe edition, and that says it was from winter '92. winter in the SP liner notes from the reissues usually refers to true winter, Jan-March. but it also says it's a Sadlands demo, which refers to Billy's house, which he didn't own yet as far as I know. so who knows, I don't really. but if he recorded it in winter '92 then the only real time to do it was January.

while it's been circulating for a long time since it was on the Coyle tape, this is one where the new mix sounds really nice actually. brings out a lot of details. is this the only Smashing Pumpkins song with a harmonica? and there's the tinkly sounds at the end (dunno what that is, a xylophone, or keyboard?) that were kind of bugging me cause I thought they were stolen from another song but I think what I was thinking of is just "Let Down." it's a really good song, I wonder if there's a full band rehearsal of it anywhere in their archive... it seems like it could easily have made a great b-side or fit onto Pisces.
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Postby palmer eldritch » Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:33 pm

84. Blissed



similarly, a home demo from winter '92, which I think was completely unknown before it was included on the Pisces reissue. it doesn't do a lot for me, but I think it's the first SP song that has slide guitar on it. not that there are that many, but still.
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Postby palmer eldritch » Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:29 am

85. Jellybelly (version one)
86. Offer Up

the history of these songs are kind of inseparable. but let's start with Old Jellybelly



first of all, wow, what a nice quality video that is for a band playing a tiny venue in luxor, germany. I have heard this song so many times that this video is really kind of magical for me.

so there was this kind of jam they'd play mostly as a show-ender for a very short period of time. the only recordings of it exist from 1/18 to 1/29/92. thanks to how good europeans are at taping shows, I guess, there are 5 recordings of it. at some, the lyrics in the song come from the song "STP" and at others it's a mixture of lyrics of those and the ones that are also used in "Offer Up." for many years this song, didn't have a name, I think mostly it got called "Offer Up (long)" or something like that, until Eric A. played him a bit of the song or described it to Billy, I'm not sure what, but Billy identified the song as an early version of "Jellybelly." which kind of seems odd, it doesn't actually sound anything like "Jellybelly." it kind of has part of the riff. but I was listening to some podcast thing where he was talking about songs, for the purpose of this chronology, and he made a passing reference to this old jam as an early "Jellybelly" so 20 years apart he still identifies it as that. it's funny to look at all the youtube comments of "uh that's not jellybelly idiot"

"STP" where the lyrics were lifted from was retired around Nov. '91 and it also uses some of the same notes so I'm not sure if really it came out of a rewrite or jam on that song. I've listened to it a lot of times trying to figure that out. I can't imagine there are many people on this planet who have spent as much time thinking about this particular song as I have. it's also just a really excellent little jam with lots of psychedelic energy. the '92 live shows are pretty much my favorite period of the band. they were so weird then.

but there are also the lyrics from "Offer Up." which lets not forget...

palmer eldritch wrote:50. Over You

I think we're up to like 3 total live versions of this. the Sept. '90 version one, which is the last one we have (like "Razor"), has slightly different lyrics. one of them is "offer up your everything" which is a lyric that shows up again two years later in another song. and also another song.


so it's hard to say, did "Offer Up" exist as its own thing or did it evolve on its own from the "Jellybelly" jam in '92.

either way, "Offer Up" which is kind of like "Worship" a light improvisational psych rock jam outlasted the "Jellybelly" jam and was played through '92,

there's a version on Mashed Potatoes



and it was further canonized by being on the live DVD bonus for Pisces though they chose the day before this for the DVD I think this one is better:



it was also played as an instrumental



and that one is probably my favorite version if it tbh. very nice. yeah I love the 1992 version of the band.
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Postby barbara_h » Sun Mar 26, 2023 4:24 am

Wow thanks for the 92 Luxor video, the full show is here if anyone's interested:
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Postby slime » Sun Mar 26, 2023 6:31 am

There was a short show from the netherlands(i think) i listened to a lot that had such a great “offer up”. James was real good with the feedback
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Postby palmer eldritch » Sun Mar 26, 2023 11:05 pm

87. Soothe



so after a tour of europe, and a week of shows in Japan, the band ends up back in the USA and gets a break from touring. sometime in that spring, in his apartment, Billy records "Soothe" which is later used as a b-side for the "Disarm" single and then later as the opener for Pisces. as far as his acoustic songs go this is a really good one.

he played it live once, at a show in London in '94 where the energy between the band and crowd wasn't very good so he complains at the end about everyone talking through it.

https://ia800306.us.archive.org/34/items/tsp1994-02-23.shn/tsp1994-02-23d1t12.mp3
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Postby palmer eldritch » Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:31 am

88. Frail & Bedazzled



that spring they started putting down mostly rough demos at Soundworks Studios. one of the ones that has been released from that session, though it wouldn't surprise me if there was a lot of interesting early versions of material recorded here that we don't know about, is the "Frail & Bedazzled" instrumental.

the whole assembly process for it is kind of visible because in the short lived SPRC project in 2011 they released a home demo version, just a drum machine + guitar sketch



this was then demoed in the studio with dual guitar lead overdubs



this version has pretty much what will eventually be the song, but with some extra sections in it that get cut later.

they played it live at their three shows in Wisconsin that are documented well since they were recorded on video, parts of which were compiled in a kind of a closely held bootleg called "Fruit Bat Salad" though audio of the 6/9/92 concert has been in circulation for a long time.



this version is different from the final version and follows the demo, including having that extra section, and mostly different lyrics.

the 6/9 version sounds a bit clearer to me

https://ia600502.us.archive.org/4/items/tsp1992-06-09.shn/920609-08-FrailandBedazzled.mp3

there's no other versions of the song until nov. when it was recorded for the Quiet and Other Songs demo, where it's been rewritten into almost its final version. the structure is set, there's just a few lyrics that get changed between it and the final recording.



they played it pretty rarely, just a few times in '93 and '94, and then at the double door shows in '95



in some ways I think of it as the first song on the path to mellon collie if that makes any sense. it doesn't really work with the Siamese Dream material, and the demo sounds like it wouldn't be that out of place in the '94 gravity demos.

it had some of the more infamously indecipherable lyrics. a classic early one on fan pages was "she don't know, that I am, still a slob, from a trashyard can." the PI reissue book has lyrics so I guess it's all settled now.

anyway, it's a great song. "all I wanted was to be happy and since I gave up I feel free"
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Postby palmer eldritch » Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:52 am

the Quiet and Other Songs demo versions will show up for songs from here, it's a strange demo that I still don't fully understand. the story goes that they they put it down in a November session at their Broadway rehearsal space to submit to the label before they went in to record Siamese Dream. it may have all been done in one day, they're just ripping through the songs, it's a rough demo, and the the vocals are even less than his normal scratch vocal level, sometimes he's goofing off on purpose. they surely had better recordings of many of these songs, but they decided to do a fresh run through and record them this way for some reason. and then Billy put a copy in the Library of Congress. so people knew about the tape since the late 90's and after everything else that was rare had leaked it was the only like holy grail item I guess that was not solely in the possession of band members.

I know Billy hates the takes with "blah blah" vocals where he's just sketching out what will eventually go there. I don't think any of this would have ever been released voluntarily. it's clearly been passed over in the reissues. but since it had an entry in the Library of Congress and the songs were copyrighted people wanted to track it down. and in 2007 it did finally leak out. I don't know how, I wasn't in the community then. and for the purpose of something like this, looking at where the songs came from and how they developed it's a pretty critical "document" even though the performances are rough.
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Postby Althea » Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:47 am

I looove Frail & Bedazzled, often sub it in for Quiet when I'm listening to Siamese Dream (though Quiet's been growing on me recently)
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Postby reversemigraine » Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:13 am

I always forget that F&B wasn't a b-side. Do we know at what point Billy (or Virgin?) started thinking about putting out a rarities comp? Wondering if he decided early on in the SD promotion cycle that he needed to hold a good rocker back to anchor Pisces.
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